This next one is from South Amherst's own thrash metal veterans (having their debut album "There Will Be Blood" back in 2008. Vic , frontman and founder of Vindicator, talks to us about their latest happenings (at the time), what they've done, and gives you a feel of what they're about. If you're into good old thrash metal and don't know these dudes, give them a listen for sure. I'll put a video of one of my favorite songs at the end of the article. This one is considerably less cringey. I'm not talkin' like I'm coolguy McGee now, because there's no fixing me in that aspect, but I like to think I learn from my.... how you say.... Idiocy. So here's an old(ish) interview With Vic. Enjoy!
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| Photo Cred: Cristina Atilano, Image altered by yours truly |
Let's start off with getting to know the man who is Vic Stown a little better before we get right into the Vindicator talk. How was it growing up? Did you parents introduce you to metal?
- My parents were into a lot of sixties and seventies rock and of course metal from the seventies and the eighties. Back then radio stations didn't suck nearly as bad as they do today, so you could tune into your local rock station and a hear variety of good music. That's what I grew up with, Aerosmith, Motley Crue, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, etc. But my love and appreciation of thrash came from my buddy and former band mate, Wayne Holocaust. He's the one who really hooked me. Annihilator, Mortal Sin, Artillery. Known and unknown. At twenty years old he had a massive collection of tapes, CDs, vinyl, and mp3s. We'd hang out and just listen to music.
What band was your Dad in, and how did it affect you?
- In the eighties he was in the heavy metal/hard rock outfit, Stutz. That lasted until the early nineties. Then after a brief moment, he was in a Christian hard rock band called Michael for several years. And then a band called SOL after that. His constantly being in bands had a huge impact on who I am today. It's like I couldn't stop writing, playing, or enjoying music if I wanted to. It's in my DNA. His songwriting has influenced the way I compose my own music. It's subtle, but it's there.
When was the first time you picked up a guitar, and is that the only instrument that you play?
- I couldn't remember the first time I actually picked one up, no matter how hard I tried. But around the age twelve is when I really wanted to learn how to play. Today I can play bass and guitar, if you want to call it that, heh. I have a very rudimentary understanding of most instruments and can play them like cavemen would paint. I'm no virtuoso on anything, but I can figure most instruments out enough to play a primitive song or two. I'm great fun at campfires.
Did you and your brother both start playing instruments at the same time, and how were you introduced to the guitar?
- My brother really started getting into drums around the age fourteen, I think. I was eighteen at the time. I somewhat decided for him that he would play drums. The way I saw it was, he had a tiny kit when he was like five, he should play drums. I got my first guitar around the same age that I really started getting interested in it. That Christmas my parents bought me an Epiphone Stratacopy and a Park fifteen watt practice amp. They were both horrendous sounding and difficult to work with. But I made do.
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| Photo by Robert Escue |
Who was your biggest influence?
- At the time, my biggest influence was my Dad. He showed me three power chords and told me I could learn most songs knowing those three chords. So naturally Smoke On The Water and Cat Scratch Fever were played quite a bit. Over the years my Dad has remained an influence in my writing, but depending on what I'm writing, my influences will change damn near song to song.
Growing up, were your favorite bands the same as they are now, or have they changed over the years, and do they have any part in inspiring your music to this day?
- The bands I liked when I was growing up, I still like today. There's just way more now. Certain bands inspire me creatively, while others inspire me as a musician. They all help me to be creative, I suppose. Some are very obvious, others only slightly.
What was the first concert/show you saw, and what did you think of it? Was it special to you?
- The first real show I went to was Kansas at the Lorain county fair. It was a great show. It is still special to me, yes. My first metal show was Iron Maiden, Dio, and Motorhead. That show really lit me up as an aspiring musician. Nothing tops the energy at a metal show of that caliber.
Alright, now to get to some Vindi talk! In 2005, the formation of Vindicator came about. How did that happen?
- My previous band of three years had came to a screeching halt. It crushed me. All the time we had dumped into it for nothing. Feeling a bit bitter and having lots more to say and do, I didn't hesitate to form another. Obvious choices were my brother and Wayne Holocaust who were also in the aforementioned band. We learned that our friend from high school who was in a black metal band as a vocalist (but could also play bass) had just quit. We all lived in South Amherst. It was a no-brainer for all of us.
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| Photo by Rockhouse |
Was Vindicator the first name that was chosen for the band, and who came up with it? Why was the name chosen?
- There were a few names and for the life of me I can't remember any of them. Most were pretty silly. I think one might have been “Thrash Hammer”, ugh. Glad that didn't happen. But Vindicator was in that first mix. Marshall came up with it since he and Wayne were Warhammer dorks (like those Bolt Thrower guys) Vindicator was a natural choice. I'm kidding, by the way. Warhammer is awesome. And so is Bolt Thrower.
Were there any bands you were in before Vindicator?
-I was in a rock band in high school named LEAF. Some cool acronym for something or other. Wayne and Marshall were in a metal band named Fallout. After high school, Wayne, Jesse, and myself were in what started as Snowyt (Snow White, our wit was OFF THE CHARTS, I know). When Mikey B. Lial joined the band he suggested we change the name as people had trouble actually pronouncing it. We got “Snowy T” or “Snow It” a lot. So it was clear, the name had to go. Jesse suggested Violent Night and everyone agreed.
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| Photo by Sarah Stown Jesse (drums), Vic (guitar), James J. (Cat, Guitar), and Ed (Bass) |
A little while after the formation of the band, the first demo came out, followed by the second demo entitled "South Amherst Thrash", which included new songs altogether. What are your thoughts on those songs now, and how did you record and get those demos around?
- I still love those early tracks. Our first demo was just a demo of a basement rehearsal. We recorded it on an iPod using the Griffin iTalk attachment. We tossed it up on a dryer and ran through our set. Warts and all. I love how it turned out. It was free and didn't need mastering. As raw as they come. It was the only recording with original second guitarist, Wayne Holocaust. He left shortly after. Marshall, Jesse, and I decided we needed a proper demo. I hit up former Violent Night member Mikey B. Lial to record with. He had a Fostex digital recorder and was pretty good at using it. This was in an age that most DAWs were extremely expensive and not readily “available” in terms of finding pirated copies. So at the time, it was an excellent option. We cut those songs in one day. A few of those tracks made their way onto our first full length. Some retain there kvlt status on those demos. We decided to combine the two demos since we had space on the CDRs we were making. Getting them out was fairly easy, too. We hauled them around to local shows we attended or played. Sent them out here and there. They made their way around the world. I recently ran into a vender selling them for five bucks a piece. I got a good chuckle out of that.
After the release of that demo came the first full length album called "There Will Be Blood" (2008). Only 3 songs from the demos were used on this album. What was the reason for that, and why did those three stay, and did you already have all the material written for the rest of the album, or did you guys work on it after the initial songs for the demos were written?
- Vindicator actually went into a temporary hiatus for roughly a year in two thousand-seven. In that time we wrote most of There Will Be Blood. When you're inspired to write, you write. So we took advantage of that. Some songs happened while we were down, some when we started to get active again. It came together relatively easy and quickly. We didn't really have a solid reason as to why what demo tracks stuck around. We just felt those three were ones that needed to happen.
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| Photo by Sarah Stown |
What are your thoughts on that album today? Any memories or notable events from recording it? Was it tough recording it?
- I think it's a solid release. I think it stood up to the Slayer worship that many of the new crop were producing. It's a fun album and it's catchy. It wasn't extremely technical by any means. But it's good. We recorded TWBB in the loft of a three car garage. A guy my Dad was jamming with had a studio. We hired an outside engineer and made it happen. It was hot as fuck up there. No AC. Just fans. The album unfolded smoothly. I remember one nasty storm, but it came and went. We laughed a lot, ate a lot of Subway, and made the magic happen.
Who was the guy on the cover of the album holding the axe?
- That's Marshall. Originally, we had paid famed artist of the era, Halseycaust to make the artwork for the record. She didn't get it to us on time. We had a set deadline to make TWBB happen before a quick run out to LA. Marshall came up with the concept you see on the cover. And we used the art from Halsey for our sophomore record, The Antique Witcheries. I love how that unfolded. I feel the artwork for TWBB is more appropriate than the Halsey piece for that record. It's very Exciterish, if you will.
Where was it that the album was done, and did you guys have decent equipment?
- I think the studio was called Atonement Studios. Like I said, it was a loft above a garage in Birmingham, Ohio. It was nice, sort of in the country. Quiet place. They had good enough equipment. The album had an unintentional eighties vibe. It was all digital, but sounded pretty analog. Which was weird. I'm not sure how that happened.
How was the distribution of the album, and what formats was it on? Did it seem to be well received to you?
- It was pressed by us, so the only distribution it saw was from us trading with small labels. But there's a lot of small labels worldwide that wanted it, so in the end, it got excellent distribution. Sure, it wasn't in major retailers, but it was getting to people who were genuinely interested in that music. It was originally pressed on CD. Later on Doomentia Records would reissue it on vinyl.
When was it that Slaney Records contacted you, and how did it go down?
- Shortly after TWBB we were contacted by fledgling Irish label, Slaney Records. They were interested in us to participate in an unnamed split series they were working on.
After the single "The Dog Beneath The Skin" (Vindicator's first released work under a label), you guys did a split compilation entitled "Outbreak Of Metal Vol. 1" with another band named Metal Witch. Was that Slaney's doing, or did you guys suggest it, and were you a fan of Metal Witch?
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| Photo by Ron Daniel |
Were there intentions to have another edition of an Outbreak Of Metal compilation because of the "Vol. 1" at the end of the title?
- I'm fairly confident Slaney intended to keep the series running. They ended up doing a Volume Two. Not sure if anymore happened following. Splits are a tricky thing. Some are received well. Most, not so much. An EP seems to generally do better alone.
Who came up with that album art for the Outbreak Of Metal compilation? One of my favorite album covers of Vindicator.
- I believe the artist's name is Sean Fitzpatrick. He's still out there making great art.
After There Will Be Blood, a few line-up changes happened including the bassist and the guitarist. Did this happen directly after the recording of TWBB, or did it happen gradually, and for what reasons, if you'd like to share.
- Well, Marshall stayed on bass up until around The Antique Witcheries. But Bob Shubert did quit after our first tour. He played a show or two and then bailed to work on his own project. This wasn't a bad thing. We appreciated the time Bob spent with us, but it gave us the opportunity to rekindle our relationship with former Violent Night band mate, Mikey B. Lial. Mike is phenomenal musician. Both very professional and talented. We asked if he'd be interested in recording leads on the split stuff and after he did, offered him the lead spot to which he accepted.
For what reasons did Marshall Law go from singing and playing bass to just singing?
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| Photo by Ron Daniel Jesse Stown |
After that came Vindicator’s second full length album; "The Antique Witcheries", which seemed to take on new lyrical content and sound overall in my opinion, would you agree with that?
- Lyrically we sang about roughly the same things we had before. We touched politics for the first time. Still the same old horror. The album was very Lovecraft themed. Many lyrics and titles were pulled directly from Lovecraft stories. The sound was sonically different from anything we had done before. We recorded it at the same studio we had done the split hoping to attain that same rawness. It was a little more polished the second time around, though. I still was not at all disappointed in the release, though.Being that this was the first album that you recorded on Heavy Artillery records, was it a lot different from when you recorded under an independent label?
- It was a lot different. We got jerked around a lot and pretty well under funded. We did our best with what we had. So to answer your question, yes. Working with people who genuinely love the music they're releasing versus people just trying to use you to make money is what you get with indie labels versus labels with massive retail distribution.
Did the recording process seem to go a lot smoother, and how was the treatment Heavy Artillery gave you overall at that time?
- There were elements that went extremely smooth, while there were issues here and there. Heavy Artillery had us in the dog house just about the instant we signed the contract. I could go on about the crap we endured from their end, but I'd rather not.
On the cover of "The Antique Witcheries" there is a skeleton holding an ax. Was that at all intended as a theme for your albums, as the guy on the cover of There Will Be Blood had one, or was it just a coincidence?
- Purely coincidence. The first three releases did have a dude with an ax, though. We loved axes back then.
The title of the album along with the title track seemed to be a new sort of topic to delve into. Seems like an interesting cool topic to me, what prompted it?
- I got a copy of The Library Of America's “Lovecraft Tales” for Christmas the previous year. I had heard of the author but never really delved into his writings. It inspired me greatly at the time and influenced most of what you hear on TAW.
Did the distribution of that album go more smooth since you had Heavy Artillery on your side at that time?
- I guess you could say that. Labels distribute according to demographics, so in LA you could walk into a Best Buy and see it on the shelf with fellow thrashers Fueled By Fire, Gama Bomb, and Warbringer. But in our neck of the woods, Rap rules supreme, so needless to say, we couldn't find it. It was a bummer. One of our biggest accomplishments, our CD in a major retailer, and we couldn't even walk into our local chains like FYE and Best Buy and hold our work.
The third album to date "United We Fall"was a major turning point for the band, with the departure of a few members,and a door open to new ones, along with you going from guitarist, to the singer and guitarist. So what happened with the singer and bassist, and where did you find Ed Stephens and James J. LaRue?
- Marshall started to drift apart from band shortly before recording TAW. He had just graduated from college and was wanting to get on with his life. Shortly before we headed out on our first (and ironically our last) major North American tour, he bailed. With very little options, I took the helm. Although Mikey recorded leads for TAW, he had already parted ways with the band prior to it's recording, also siting life as his prompt to quit. He did us a solid by playing on the record. Mick Mayer joined as lead guitarist after the album was cut, but also left for reasons unknown prior to our US tour. This left myself, Kid, and Jesse. We toured as a power trio with no guitar harmonies or solos, with our friends in Possessor and Aggressor. James was filling in for Aggressor. We became good friends during that month and we talked him into moving out to Ohio and filling the vacant lead position. Kid left shortly after that tour for personal reasons. In that time we sought out local bass talent, Mike Kurtz, from the Lick The Blade. Mike stayed on for a short period. Ed filled in for Mike on a few gigs and shortly thereafter, we offered him the bass spot.
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| Photo by Robert Escue |
Had you already been experienced in singing, or was it a whole new thing for you to master? And was singing and playing guitar at the same time difficult at first?
- I sang and played guitar in Violent Night, so it wasn't anything new for me. Some things were tough, others weren't so bad. But I didn't have much time to get into shape. I had been out of practice for some time. It was hard, but I pulled through. After a month on the road, I hadgotten much better, haha!
Shortly after the release of "United We Fall", Vindicator played the Warriors Of Metal fest. How was that for you, and are there any really memorable moments you'd like to share?
- That was a great time. All of the WOMs were. We played the year before, and headlined the pre fest show the year after. That particular one we were direct support to Helstar. I remember playing and looking over my shoulder to see James Rivera watching us. That's special to me. That means something to me. It was a real honor. Sadly, it was James' last live performance with us.
Who have you gone on tour with over the years that have left an impact on you in the sense that the bands were great to play a show with and fun to hang out with?
- Every. Single. Band. We were VERY fortunate to not run into or have to deal with ANY rock stars when we toured. We only toured a handful of times. I can list all the bands we toured with: Fatality, Aggressor, Possessor, Lich King, Viking, Seven Witches, and Vicious Rumors. Not a single one disappointed or were unfun to hang with. You forge amazing friendships on the road with your tour partners. They become your satellite family. |
| Photo by Rayna Lawson |
- These tracks were tracks we had left over from UWF. They just didn't fit for one reason or another. UWF was the first release we went into having more tracks than we needed. So it was nice to be able to put them out.
There seems to be a lot of talking before the songs a lot like how Toxik had on "Think This", any correlation there? I think it adds a nice touch to the songs.
- As much as a love that record, there is no correlation between to two. We added Robert Oppenheimer to New Clear Assault: End Of An Error for the obvious reason the song is about nuclear warfare. It added to the overall feel.
The song "New Clear Assault: The End Of An Error" was a reprise almost of the song featured on the first album, just called "New Clear Assault". What was the reason for re doing that song, and what does the "End Of The Error" part of the title indicate?- I wanted to rerecord a track, but not in the typical sense. So we built off the original and expanded it a little bit and that's what you get with New Clear Assault: End Of An Error. The end of an error aspect of the title is referring to mankind being the error. How greed and power killed us off. Not a new concept to the metal world, but something I wanted to write about.
"Hockey Stick Vengeance" stuck out to me on that EP, as well. What was the inspiration for that?
- I'm a product of the eighties. No matter how “childish” is seems, I still have a special place in my heart for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Hockey Stick Vengeance is about Casey Jones. That character always has been and will be a favorite of mine. I write about stuff that interests me. This include serious, social, fictional, political, horror, and pretty much: all topics.
Where did the art concept come from for "Sleeping With Evil" and what was the intention of the title, or the meaning?
- Artist Yannick Bouchard was the creator of that piece. I meant it literally. Sleeping With Evil is about a succubus.
If you could have any custom guitar, what would it be?
- I'd probably get myself another V of sorts. Maybe an Explorer body. I've got enough guitars that I don't really think about this anymore, haha! I actually do have a custom KxK. I quit playing it because I didn't want to beat it to hell, haha!
What are some of your favorite bands you always enjoy sitting down and listening to now?
- So many... Hessian became a recent favorite. I'm a big fan of Superchrist and most things Chris Black. Havok will always have a special place in my ear. Of course, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Annihilator, Artillery, Riot, Thin Lizzy, etc. But I enjoy sitting down and listening to most music. There's usually always music playing in my household. An eclectic variety at that.
If you had a Cheat-tar, would you play it all the time?
- If it were a neckthru and didn't break my cow lamp, yes. I'd be ok with light switch raves, though.
At this point in your musical career, would you change anything that you've done, and are you happy with where you are now? And with all the contributions you've given to the metal community thus far, what are your next plans of action for the future?
- I'm content with what I've accomplished. Having said that, hindsight is truly twenty-twenty. There's A LOT I would do differently. Writing the same music isn't one of them, though. At this point in time, I have no plans of action. The members of my band all have a lot going on, so we do what we can, when we can. That just means Vindicator is slowing down. It doesn't mean I'm slowing down, by any means. I've got a lot planned for the future, music-wise. And in typical artist fashion, I can't really divulge right now.
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